posted February 11, 2003 12:18 PM            

I saw a recent discussion on these boards (but I can't find it now...where's the search feature?) about the lost All-Star story, "The Will of William Wilson". Someone suggested including it in the All Star Archives and having Roy Thomas fill in the script gaps, and recruiting one of the surviving All Star artists to fill in the missing artwork. I just want to say I think this is a fantastic idea that I hope DC will give some consideration. What a great opportunity for DC to do something really special for the final issue of the All Star Archives!

posted February 11, 2003 05:22 PM               

On one hand, I'm fascinated to see all the "extras" that were there at one time. I'd love to see every foot of film that was shot when my favorite films were made.

But then there's the end result when someone tries to reassemble the mess into a whole.

Two cases in point:

1) It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World. When I was a kid (pre-VCR), my father and I followed this film from theater to theater to watch it repeatedly. each time we would see the name of Chick Chandler in the credits. Chick was a well-known character actor of the '40s and '50s whose face we knew very well. But we never saw him in the movie. never. The last time we saw it at the theater, Dad & I did nothing but look around for Chick! Where is he? Dad died years later, never knowing the answer to this riddle.

Well, the answer was simple: Mr. Chandler was on the cutting room floor. His scenes were cut, but his name remained in the credits.

I recently saw a "restored" version of Mad Mad World in which all the remaining footage was added to the original film. The added stuff was easy to detect, because it had a slight green tinge to it. In a couple of these sections, there was Chick Chandler – and another character actor, Roy Roberts, whom I never noticed was also in the credits buy not in the original film.

To get to the point of all this, none of the restored scenes really added much to the movie, and it was so long to begin with, the deletions were welcome.

2) Lost Horizon. This Frank Capra film is a gem. More dialogue tracks were found and sliced between scenes in the original. Still photographs of the actors speaking were inserted in lieu of motion picture.

One section was ungodly long and boring. The other was a very effective scene, I grudgingly admit.

But one way or another, both intrusions brought the film to a dead halt.

posted February 11, 2003 08:32 PM               

Wonder Woman, Flash & Dr. Mid-Nite all had 40's stories finally printed in the 70's.

------------------
Rock a little,

posted February 12, 2003 01:10 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Steven Utley:
If I were a "Golden Age" hero, I wouldn't let Roy Thomas come within ten miles of me.

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Believe it or not, the youthful Mr. Utley thought more kindly of ol' Roy Thomas. I was just rereading vintage All-Star Squadron and whose name should appear in the letter col singling the books phrases? Yep - our friend Steve.

Sorry but I have to give Roy his due. I've enjoyed many books written by him and still get out the old titles like A-SSq and Conan.

posted February 12, 2003 03:32 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kamandi Last Boy on Earth:
Believe it or not, the youthful Mr. Utley thought more kindly of ol' Roy Thomas. I was just rereading vintage All-Star Squadron and whose name should appear in the letter col singling the books phrases? Yep - our friend Steve.

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posted February 12, 2003 04:20 AM            

Rob! Get this ferlushinger board fixed! God bless AOL and its "synergy" with the TimeWarner properties. Nice to see them apply their *snicker* high tech *snort* expertise to a simple message board.

posted February 12, 2003 05:05 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Redfury:
I saw a recent discussion on these boards (but I can't find it now...where's the search feature?) about the lost All-Star story, "The Will of William Wilson". Someone suggested including it in the All Star Archives and having Roy Thomas fill in the script gaps, and recruiting one of the surviving All Star artists to fill in the missing artwork. I just want to say I think this is a fantastic idea that I hope DC will give some consideration. What a great opportunity for DC to do something really special for the final issue of the All Star Archives!

Todd

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posted February 12, 2003 10:24 AM            

quote:

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If I were a "Golden Age" hero, I wouldn't let Roy Thomas come within ten miles of me.

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I really like Roy Thomas, especially his Conan and All Star Squadron runs. I think he really cares about the characters and strives to be true to the original creator's vision.

quote:

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There's usually a reason why unfinished works are unfinished.

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The unfinished stories by Howard and Burroughs were intentionally abandoned. The authors found a fault or lost interest and gave up. TWoWW was complete and ready for publication.

quote:

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It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World. When I was a kid (pre-VCR), my father and I followed this film from theater to theater to watch it repeatedly. each time we would see the name of Chick Chandler in the credits. Chick was a well-known character actor of the '40s and '50s whose face we knew very well. But we never saw him in the movie. never. The last time we saw it at the theater, Dad & I did nothing but look around for Chick! Where is he? Dad died years later, never knowing the answer to this riddle.

Well, the answer was simple: Mr. Chandler was on the cutting room floor. His scenes were cut, but his name remained in the credits.

I recently saw a "restored" version of Mad Mad World in which all the remaining footage was added to the original film. The added stuff was easy to detect, because it had a slight green tinge to it. In a couple of these sections, there was Chick Chandler – and another character actor, Roy Roberts, whom I never noticed was also in the credits buy not in the original film.

To get to the point of all this, none of the restored scenes really added much to the movie, and it was so long to begin with, the deletions were welcome.

---

IAMMMMW was originally released with a running time of 195 minutes. Scenes were cut by the studio for subsequent releases, and the running time was reduced to 161 minutes. The cuts were not done by the director or the editor. When you see a restored version of the film (and there are still some scenes missing), you are seeing the original cut, before the studio took their scissors to it.

TWoWW is missing panels because the whole story was intended to be cut up and burned by DC in the late 60's or early 70's. It was saved by Marv Wolfman who recognized what it was and salvaged as much as he could.

posted February 12, 2003 04:18 PM               

Atom
Batman #238 - Danger in the Totem's Eye

Black Canary
Adventure 399 - Television Told the Tale!
DC Special 3 - Special Delivery Death

Dr. Midnite
Adventure 418 - The Sight Stealers (new inks by Sal Almendola)

Flash
Flash 205 - Journey into Danger
Flash #214 - The Tale of the Three Tokens
The Golden Age Flash story in DC Super Stars 5, like the one in Four-Star Spectacular 1, was from All-Flash 22 but completely redrawn

Green Lantern
Green Lantern 88 - The Menace of the Marching Toys
Amazing World of DC Comics #3 - Safety First

Seven Soldiers of Victory
Adventure Comics 438-443 - The Land of Magic (drawn by modern artists from an unpublished script: Dick Dillin, Howard Chaykin, Mike Grell and Lee Elias, among others, IIRC)

Wildcat
DC 100-Page Super Spectacular #DC-6 - Crime Wore a Costume

Wonder Woman
DC Special 3 - The Cheetah's Thought Prisoners
Wonder Woman 196 - The Stormy Menace of Goblin Head Rock

posted February 14, 2003 10:49 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Mark Katzoff:
[B]

Green Lantern
Green Lantern 88 - The Menace of the Marching Toys
B]

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You know, now that I think about it, I have this issue, and it was one of my first introductions to the GA Green Lantern, and in fact one of my first introductions to any GA character. I was probably 11 or 12, and it was the early 90's My dad took me to the closest thing to a comic convention I'd ever seen (a confrence room at the Ramada Inn in Lakewood NJ full of most baseball cards and a few stacks of comics) and grabbed this because it was old and cheap (not in very good condition), and because I had just started reading the new Gerard Jones GL series and was a big fan, and wanted to learn some more about the backstory. There was this Green Lantern I had never heard of or seen before, but he had this cool costume and had a vulnerability to wood. I thought he was great, and have been hooked on the Golden Age ever since.

And you know, just to go off on an off topic rant for a moment, but when I was a kid (which wasn't all that long ago... I'm only 22) and just getting into comics, part of the great fun of it was that these were serial characters who had a long history. I loved to search out information about these characters, from the letter colums, from people in comic shops, from back issues, and from little hints and clues and references in the comics themselves. It was great, and it was part of what got me hook on comics.

Granted, comics today aren't as accessable as they were even 10 years ago. The idea that an editor would put a little box in the bottom of a pannel to help you understand what's going on is practically extinct today (remember when every issue of Green Lantern had to explain that his ring wouldn't work on yellow (or wood as the case may be), and every time kryptonte appeared there was an editoral box explaining it's effects?). But it's not an insurmountable problem, and these problems are not inherent in the idea of continuity.

But nowadays writers and editors are afraid of continuity. Look a the mess the Spider-Man books have become. Heck, look at Marvel in general. They're afraid of continuity. This was acutally what brought about the downfall of Green Lantern. Editor Kevin Dooley assumed the reasons sales were low was that it was "inacessable" and "bogged down in continuity" (it couldn't have simply been that Gerard Jones's wife had just had a baby, and the added responcibility of parenthood along with his taking on as much extra work as he could find in order to support his newly growing family made it impossible to keep up any quality output... it had to have been a problem so ingrained in the character that he became worthless).

posted February 14, 2003 03:23 PM            

Many of us probably had many more childhood friends that collected for a short time. Whereas we longtimers know the history and back issues, those newer readers need a hook to arouse their curiosity about the hobby... whether they stick with comics or not. And there is such a volume of titles these days, even we longtimers can't remember every recent development. It was much easier when there were 3 Batman titles, 3 Superman titles, and maybe total 20 DCs a month. The paperbacks and archives cast a wider net. They don't have to be bound by Crisis or current continuity to enjoy stories from years past. For all the shorttimers, there is always the chance you can hook in more longtimers. It works for Star Wars, Star Trek and other pop culture.

posted February 16, 2003 08:00 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Krysmo:
I'm actually in favour of publishing "The Will of William...etc." as is, with missing dialogue/story, and art - and perhaps commentary by Julie Schwartz (if he edited it?) or a golden age historian. Would be a great historical piece to wrap up the series.

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I think if DC would publish this (and I'd certainly buy it) they should keep the starting and ending pages from the original (which appear to be complete though they might need to be cleaned up a bit) and have all the interior passages done by some good writer (I'd choose Robinson, but whatever) and some slick artists. For two reasons.

What happens when DC publishes the definitive version and then more panels pop up? they re-issue the book?

Frankly, TWoWW was hardly the JSA at its creative peak. The excerpts I have seen in ALTER EGO barely seem worthy of publication to me. While the plot isn't notably bad, I'd be just as happy to see the gaps in the story redone by someone with more style.